US embassies attacked

I know, it's depressing isn't it when extremism is a compliment and education is denegrated. Where did it all go wrong?

The Bear.
 
The minute I met a 38 year old from scotland who thought he had all the answers and expected ME to make allowances for HIS culture whilst he made none for mine

Oh, and the minute you thought you have anything to say that really matters to me

Cheers!
 
This thread is closed for a short while to allow a number of people to calm down and get a perspective on things. It will be reopened for discussion later on today.
 
Okey dokey folks, this thread is re-opened for discussion. Please keep it civil, read other people's posts carefully before responding, think about how you phrase your response and show some consideration for opinions other than your own. If things get nasty the thread will be permanently locked.

I have my tin hat and flak jacket handy and would prefer not to have to use them!
 
Iranian foundation offers $3.3 million bounty for killing of Salman Rushdie
http://rt.com/art-and-culture/news/wanted-iran-reward-writers-265/

I can't believe this lol, the guy never gets a break from Iran.

Raz
 
Darn, that makes me want to go out and make some money. NOBODY would expect a Caucasian Male American to seek a bounty set by Iran! Money is money man . . . . .
 
Hey if you did it over here you would be out of jail in about 5 years. Get ripped get paid!

Raz

DISCLAIMER- No one is seriously even contemplating violence here the above was said in jest, tongue and cheek. Just cause I know its easy to read a post the wrong way.
 
Sort of like the guy who made the video that is the cause for the subject of this thread. I looked it up and couldn't get through 2 minutes of it because it was so boring, all over the place with the plot, and well . . . it just sucked. The people over there went crazy because they watched the whole thing, not the content . . . . . . it was THAT bad.
 
A lot of articles following these protests, featured, people saying they hadn't actually seen it but heard it was insulting so that's why they are rioting.

Sigh

Raz
 
I can't express to you how horrible the video was. In fact, I would be willing to bet people 5$ that they can't sit through the full thing.
 
I wish I hadn't watched it or the Enchantress of Florence. That is time I'm never getting back. I should just trolled for pix of Kates baps like everyone else.

The Bear.
 
Agreed, the Vietcong knew not to face us in conventional warfare, they would hit us do as much damage as they could and then disappear. The US coofftopicnders would send in bombardments after the enemy was spotted but they rarely stayed around for the US to do much damage. It was a huge cost for the US to bomb and not affect the enemy. Among other things arrogance cost us the victory, both Johnson and Nixon had little respect for the North Vietnamese army. Russia and China supported a permanent boarder at the 17th parallel which would have resolved the conflict. The US policy at that time was to stop the spread of Communism and wrongly concluded that China wanted to expand into Indochina. China only wanted a buffer by having North Korea, and North Vietnam between them and Japan, and the Philippines(?).




Well seeing how the French Navy incapacitated the Royal Navy, probably not. That's why allies are so important and why America is so supportive of it allies.



The relevance of this for the present time is that we are kinda in the same predicament as we were in the past. We're fighting an enemy that is as evasive as the Vietcong, and public support is waning. We're training and depending on corrupt local governments and soldiers. We're relying on Ally's who really would rather pacify the Terrorist than to eliminate them, save the Israeli's. We are obligated to send billions of dollars into the corruption to bribe a lukewarm allegiance. What we need is a major policy change for the middle east, cause what we're doing now is not likely to succeed.

EDIT: The lessons learned in guerrilla warfare in Indochina has helped us to affect the terrorist much more decisively than if we had not experienced Vietnam. But the war on popularity is what's at stake.
 
Obewan said:
Agreed, the Vietcong knew not to face us in conventional warfare, they would hit us do as much damage as they could and then disappear. The US coofftopicnders would send in bombardments after the enemy was spotted but they rarely stayed around for the US to do much damage. It was a huge cost for the US to bomb and not affect the enemy. Among other things arrogance cost us the victory, both Johnson and Nixon had little respect for the North Vietnamese army. Russia and China supported a permanent boarder at the 17th parallel which would have resolved the conflict. The US policy at that time was to stop the spread of Communism and wrongly concluded that China wanted to expand into Indochina. China only wanted a buffer by having North Korea, and North Vietnam between them and Japan, and the Philippines(?).

In the final interviews with Robert Macnamara, shortly before he passed away, he was extraordinarily transparent in accepting responsibility for the failings of the Vietnam War. The responsibility seemed to lay with the use of Business-school-like number crunching and ever-changing Strategic goals. In the end the role of the American Military fell to little more than policing a nation which took less responsibility for its own security than the US Forces.

In the recent conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, I believe the same situation is undermining our efforts. In those countries, as in Vietnam, there is a veritable storm of contrasting and competing sentiments about whether we should have come, whether we should stay and whether we should go. This is nowhere as clear-cut as when in, say, France of WW II, an entire town would turn-out and give unqualified thanks for liberation. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce
Click to expand...
 
Hi Obewan,

I think you are right that the US (and our military for that mater) learnt a lot about counter-insurgency in Vietnam, but I also can't help but feel that the lessons have cut in both directions. It would seem that we are facing what amounts to being a second generation threat - one that has learned about the importance of the media for a start - hence the staging of 'events' such as the storming of embassies that have almost no tactical significance, but are certain to get onto the news.

Just a thought

paul

oh, and Ero Senin and Bear I dont think that a literary based death list would be productive, imagine the size of the thing! :-)
 
I wonder what bin laden thinks? Oh, wait -- He's disintegrated fish droppings now. How sad....
 
Thanks for the comment on the French, I do find it funny when people give the French a load of hate for how they did in WW2, when they were decisive in the revolutionary war, as well as there little stint back in 1814, with a certain short man.

On Vietnam, same sentiments. Though I do wish Henry Kissinger was/is put on trial. If every anyone played politics with the lifes of soldiers and civilians hes your man.

On Afghan, its something over here (the UK)that frustrates us when the US and the UK commit so much to an alleged "NATO" effort, and you have countries who send 12 instructors as their commitment. But if anything happened they would expect NATO support in return. Ridiculous. NATO has been a good thing in terms of examples of alliances, but I think some countries need to pull their weight or be shown the door.

"No point in being 60% of a friend"

Raz
 
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