Zimmerman Martin Case

[ShaniquaJackson]

The whole "the Jews got over the Holocaust, why can't the Blacks get over slavery?" thing is ignoring some important facts (I'll leave the definition of "getting over it", for the sake of discussion).

Germany (no longer a Nazi country remember, different leaders, the guilty hanged, imprisoned, or fled) on both sides of the East/West division paid billions upon billions in reparations, including to Israel.

 

[PuShInGmEaWaY]

ad hominem much?

 

[YaBoy]

Speaking as a (technical) Jew, since when did we get over the Holocaust? The entire modern policy (let alone existence) of the State of Israel is driven by that trauma.

 

[miket]

Oh, so it's ok to do it if you're on the accuse everybody of being racist committee, but not when it's reciprocated by those who don't agree. The comments made are pretty much eye rolling and thread quitting, because any productive form of debate or discussion isn't going to happen when every reply is filled with "you're ignorant, not intelligent, racist, scum" undertones.

What's funny is I'm not so wrapped up in it that I realized it was ad hominem, while I'm seriously convinced that the side making tons of accusations are not aware of theirs.

 

[BlackCoffeeBlues]

It's what some other's posts have implied, I wasn't making that assertion, hence the bit in brackets about not tackling the definition of "getting over it". I personally don't think anyone should get over it, whether Jewish or not.

The point was about reparations and slavery.

 

[lukek]

In fairness, while I don't think 47MM is racist, he has continually trotted out bigoted platitudes in this thread. I don't think there's anything wrong with calling him out on it.

 

[StarDeathXo]

To be honest I haven't read much into the conversations with 47MM and have been following the replies to Mitlov, Kuma, and myself (obviously) mostly. All of which have had their words twisted to mean something different, been called unintelligent and racist, and has even went into telling somebody they need to be reviewed by their superiors because they aren't fit for their duty :roll eyes:. All while offering nothing about themselves yet hiding behind the notion of "you don't know me and what I've been through."

If somebody says something clearly inflaofftopictory then yes, they should be called on it. Hell, I think I was one of the first posts saying the OP was distasteful and thought the thread title should be changed (which ended up happening). A lot of the conversation isn't what it is being accused of being and the superiority attitude is getting old.

 

[Mariot360]

I can see some reason for frustration on both sides. It is all a bit adversarial in here.

 

[SMITIMB]

Oh yeah? Well, I'm right and that's all there is to it!

(Smiley means this is a statement meant for humor, meaning it's not a serious comment. Imagine I said it with a pouty face and stamping my foot and my arms tight and straight by my side)

 

[partyfred:t]

The problem is we have a really diverse dynamic here and it's all too easy to judge by our own standards.

The younger generation have a modern way of thinking, the older generation maybe not so much.

If I lived in the deep south and was of pensionable age, then my worldly view will be very different to that of a young city dweller.

I see different views here more than I do racisim and I don't aim that at any one person.

We shouldn't leave people behind because of their views, if that viewpoint can be changed through reasoned arguement and/or education.

 

[TheOutsiders12766]

So then, you admit to not knowing what I am referring to as overt racism in his posts yet you want to make childish and off topic jabs?



Your attitude and childish posts don't offer much to enlightened debate. If you have an issue with that, perhaps you could change the content of your posts. Then perhaps you wouldn't be seen in a negative light concerning issues that deal with race. A condemnation of or accusation that one race of people demonstrate some particular quality(in this case negative qualities have been discussed) as a result of their race alone is RACIST! The comments made might not personally offend you, but that doesn't change what they are. If you can't deal with that, you need to take that up with someone other than those pointing this fact out.

 

[UnderwaterRodent]

It's been that way since the first post.

The way the story was reported in the media over here (initially, at least) was that Z had shot M in cold blood. No mention of a struggle or anything. A lot of detail has emerged during the course of this thread which has made me for one realise that my own initial response were probably based on a great deal of misinformation, and I have to hold my hands up and admit that I was responding based on very limited understanding of the details of the story.

But to be fair, the initial post and the gloating tone of that and some of what followed undoubtedly served to antagonise a lot of people, myself included. It was like it was celebrating the fact that this kid had been killed and the killer had walked free. If it was a straightforward self-defence story then I could understand the second part (although not the first - gloating over someone's death is never nice.) But the fact is that this was a messy case, and it appears that the whole story may never be known since only one of the protagonists lived to tell the tale.

Some people seem to be bending over backwards to fill-in the blanks to mitigate the reasons why a young man was shot and killed. It seems to be the same people who are then accusing others of having an agenda, which seems ironic!

And while some people have been accused of racism quite unjustly as far as I can see, some people have for some reason felt justified in posting some jaw-droppingly racist stuff. Then they have claimed that racism only exists in the USA because African-Americans perpetuate it, which is way beyond ironic.

I don't think that this thread has exactly been MAP's finest hour, and I don't excuse my own contribution to it. But some of the stuff posted has been embarrassing.

 

[whatacheerdork]

And where did I say they were? All I said was statistically you will see a lot more stops in a higher crime area than you will a lower crime area.



Whichever one it is, it's a problem, right? Never said anything different to what I did.



Assuming you have kids, so if someone tells you you're a good dad, you're going to take that as patronizing and stereotyping?



So why are you trying to blanket that one in the same statements you make with others?



And how have I characterized them? Where have I said something negative? I never even said don't jump on him, despite what you might believe. He just had a horrible personal tragedy in his life and the last thing he needs is somebody preaching to him.

You have some serious problems with reading comprehension.

 

[AllenG]

I've been stopped a few times over the years, both within my neighborhood and in outside boroughs. I've even been detained in handcuffs before. And I work in LE. It happens from time to time.

 

[JoeB]

You're an absolute fool. Taking things completely out of context to try to argue with is feeble and trollish.

I imagine this will be taken as racist too...

 

[HuckabeeFan]

You're really not making any sense to me at all with any of that. I'm timid in typing that because I know you're going to think it's my fault, that I'm childish, racist, and ignorant for not understanding and won't think for a single moment that you're way of communicating may be the problem, or that the way you come to your conclusions is flawed. I'm not the only one having this problem with you and I doubt that you are so enlightened and intelligent that other people just can't grasp what you are saying.

 

[justthegirl]

Agreed, Johnno. I think I'm unsubscribing and letting this die just for this reason.

 

[GinnivieveT]

This is what you posted. His loss does not justify an attack on African-Americans, who deal with their own losses in a similar vein to his and more on a daily basis. Some of us felt that his comments were racist and he himself later agreed that he could've written it differently. So how were my comments concerning his original post out of context?



Grief is not an excuse to start attributing certain negative attributes to another race.



I think people were jumping on the negative things he wrote in his post characterizing African-American people. You call that jumping on him but you turned around and jumped on other posters you disagreed with. Very professional(ditto with your last posts).

 

[isgoresvicepresident]

I was going to quote that sentence from Johnno as well but with a different reaction.

I think the finest of any hour is born from overcoming differences/controversy. The lead up sucks, but you can't do that from disengaging in conversation altogether.

We should all PM serious personal attacks to get it out of our system and then try again

 

[hippomaiden]

Dear me, I'll try to explain in plainer English.






The post directly above is a childish jab that has nothing to do with the conversation. It demonstrates an attitude that is not conducive to discussing race relations or anything else of import. If you want to be seen as an intelligent individual capable of adding something valuable to the dialogue, it would help not to post things like this.



The posts that people made that characterized a certain race as to having certain negative traits on the basis of their race alone were taken to task, as those posts could be considered racist by it's definition. If you don't want to be called racist, don't post racist things. If you want to be considered intelligent, post something that can be considered so. Not sure where the scum part came in but fair enough, if that is how you feel. Again, not all posters are being called racist, but several posters have said some very borderline things, and some have crossed the line. It may not offend you personally or match your personal definition of what racism is, but that is a different issue.



I called out 47MartialMan because he posted some things that were unacceptable. You admitted to not having read his posts. As such, you don't have any basis to comment on my posts concerning his if you haven't taken the time and effort to read.



I hope that clarifies things for you a bit. No need to be timid, say what's on your mind. Just don't be childish, racist, or unintelligent and you won't be labelled as such(at least by myself).