US embassies attacked

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k4k07

Member
Post edited after re-reading your reply-

Thanks for the response,

I see this is another issue then. It seems, i may be wrong, any time there is critizicisim or a versed is picked out its

"Oh your taking it of context"
"You need to read it more"

It sounds very much , seek and ye shall find. If this is the case then how can it expect to act as a moral authority?

Raz
 
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mander

Member
If the religious person was willing to have their beliefs fundamentally changed by their findings then that maybe so, however many times that is not the case. Often in that case the science is modified to fit their beliefs.
 
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Sonja

Member
TBH that's more a Christian trait than a muslim one.

All religions are equally bad because of one simple thing. The all defer ultimate responsibility to god. Once you do that, you can get people to do anything.

The fact of the matter is that the west has created this situation by paying vast sums of money for oil to some very dodgy people. I am shocked we are even remotely surprised that bad decision came back to bite us.

The best solution is be fund renewables so we don't give them the money anymore.

The Bear.
 
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Someoneyouknow

New member
"Seek and ye shall find", interesting, where did you cite that from? I have always personally said, "You seek you find". I am not only trying to defend the Quran (I did because I understand it well), but as you just implied that when attempting to understand anything, the context and intention of it must also be understood.

My hat's off to you. There aren't many people in the world today who are able to realize a mistake. I'm not sure if it's your personality or your experience in MA, but your apparent lack of an ego is impressive and something I can learn from as well.



This is true, VERY true, and in fact, the Prophet Muhaofftopicd, peace be unto him, predicted that there would come a time where Muslims would be Muslim by name but not by faith. However, we believe the prophet Muhaofftopicd was the human-form of complete perfection, and was thus the example laid out for every Muslim. The intention wasn't to ever achieve his status of perfection, but to put oneself through the struggle of attempting perfection their entire life.

It's not how brave you are or if you stand up against someone bigger than you, it's about how hard you have to dig deep inside yourself to do it. My sensei taught me this.


I also would like to point out for the public here that there really isn't any nation or governing body in the world today that practices or preaches true Islam. Saudi, for example, is probably the biggest villain in the world. I have no sympathy for their government or any respect whatsoever. They are responsible for a lot of wrong impressions of Muslims and are the primary source of corruption within the Muslim faith in the modern world. True Islam is hard to find, but it can be found. It would typically be amongst those individual people in the masjid that keep a low profile, the one sitting in the corner quietly reading the Quran to him/herself, and usually the person who lives like a poor man/woman because he/she donates too generously to those in more need. Before you say anything, yes, I know several people like that and I'm blessed to know them.

Islam has helped me tremendously in MA's in the past and still does. The inner peace and respect for the planet, the air, the trees and animals, strangers, and even toward those I may not like (okay that's a bit harder but I try), it shares a very deep connection with many Chinese/Japanese/Korean MA's.
 
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daisyl007

Member
I think nearly all religions are flawed because man, they're creator, is flawed. Add into the mix the need to control and capitalize on the under-educated masses and the church (and also religion) becomes far LESS about God and far MORE about MAN. I don't think any religion's gotten it right so far - if thats even possible. I also think that within each religion you have the classic bell curve. Some are fanatical in their verbatim adherence to scripture in the literal sense, while others, are so loose and unstructured you're not sure WHAT religion they are. Yet in the middle, the vast majority are simply decent folks trying to find some sense to the mess that is daily life. I'm sure that holds for Muslims as well as Christians or Jews.

I don't know if any of you remember the saga of me finding my real mom? She was a Turkish Muslim and while Tefik, her Father was a STRICT Muslim, she barely considered herself one. In fact, she seemed to know more about Christianity than her own religion.
 
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teresathegreat

Member
You very rarely find fanatical Taoists

(I was going to add Pagans, but I have met some proper nut-jobs within the loose grouping that accomodates my beliefs so tend to leave well alone!)
 
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Titanic

Member
Thanks for the kind sentiment at the end, my main aim has always been to further knowledge I don't really care about being right, my theory is I keep asking un till I fully understand it ^^

Im much more happy to be proved wrong providing there is decent logic as well as some credible source behind it, thats why I get frustrated with, "you need to re-read it" I understand this is if I have not read it all but if someone hopes to rebut a statement with. "you need to re read" I can't take them seriously.

As it shows they just are not open to their beliefs being questioned in which case then don;t join a discussion.

Gladly thats not been the case here

Seek and ye shall find, King James Bible. Even though im not religious I find it a beautiful peice of the English Language.

Mathew 7:6 or 7:7 not 100% sure.
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I admit my Muslum circle of friends is small, (in a school of 1500, we had 2 guys who just immigrated from Hong Kong and 1 from Pakistan, thats growing up in Scotland for you )

Though the Muslim friends I have today as previously mentioned, I have decent discussions with, but they struggle with some of the points we have talked about and I think its case of there are no absolutes in some instances.

Thanks

Raz
 
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Moroccangirl

Member
Hah, I just re-read your post and realized I slightly misread it. Although I do no retract my previous reply to you at all, I thought you said "how can **I** expect to act as a moral authority?" Regardless, I believe you still understood the concept of my post and will now directly answer your question.

Have you ever watched a movie and enjoyed it so much that you kept watching it over and over again? Every time you watched it again, you'd pick out on something very minor you missed last time. And then no matter how many times you watched it again, you realized there was always something, no matter how big or small, you misunderstood. Eventually, you memorized the movie line by line, screen by screen, to where you became its master.

The Quran teaches us to continuously practice the Quran our entire lives. Reading it once is not sufficient as to understand it with clarity, it must be studied heavily, debated, argued, even questioned (contrary to semi-popular belief), and then read some more. Every time you read it, you'll begin to catch onto its structure, then you'll catch onto its context, and then your interpretations of individual verses begin to be guided by the notion that one verse will not contradict another.
 
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tomdelonge

New member
Same here, and honestly, I have the same mentality. Without solid proof/evidence and a thorough understanding of that evidence, there is no respectable answer - no matter how right or wrong. I'm definitely open to my beliefs being questioned. I questioned it myself for a long time until I eventually "apostated", claimed myself somewhat Atheist, then studied Christianity and even a little Hinduism, claimed myself agnostic, until eventually taking the time to actually re-read and study the Quran with an open and curious mind. The problems in Islam today are the same problems that Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism and Hinduism have as well. Many sects, many different understandings, and all being abused in the name of power and wealth against those who cannot stand up for themselves.

Respect, man. I came into this thread thinking you were just another Islamaphobist irrationally tossing around hate messages.
 
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Me

Active member
Maybe he said it because the Vatican turned a blind eye to the Nazis and Italy allied themselves with the Nazis. The Holocaust is as much a stain for the Roman Catholic church and Italy as it is for Germany. Most of us just tend to forget those who turned a blind eye.
 
basketball2008

basketball2008

Member
Some would call that brainwashing :P

Im playing tounge and cheek there offcourse-

I think the claim by Islam to be the last and final religion is a reason it draws a lot of debate perhaps more than the others.

I remember reading this paper a few months ago, it does identify some verses of tolerance within the Quran about Christians etc but it states that overall it seems them as almost lesser.

http://debate.org.uk/topics/theo/qur-chrs.htm

If you could take 2 minutes to have a quick read and share some insight.

Thanks

Raz
 
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DrGonzo

Member
Yea big time, Jorvik go look into how the Roman Catholic Church prayed for the Fuhrer every year and on his birthday.

Look at the concord acts between the Vatican and Hitler.

Raz

P.S Oh dear I just agreed with aikiwolfie something is wrong here...
 
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Blenderx360

New member
AGREED!

I find it hard to fathom how anyone could claim it didn't happen. Lately there has been a priest travelling Nazi held countries during WWII, trying to find and identify mass graves used to bury Jews shot and murdered by Nazi Death Squads. There are still witnesses and plenty of evidence. Same for the Death Camps. If this were all some sort of hoax then it would have to be the single largest conspiracy ever imagined.
 
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alextreerat

New member
I find no credible evidence to suggest the Holocaust did not happen. I think thats a baseline of historical fact,anyone who says otherwise. Stand by.

But I do find some of the events fabricated , and exegarated in some cases.
As history is written by the victors there is always going to be a bit of "re-writing
But to say that it was all some Jewish Lie, is just obscene.

Raz
 
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sierenthead

Member
Taoists?

Weren't they the group that was taking arsenic to gain immortality?
Men were encouraged to not limit themselves to one woman, and were advised to have sex only with the woman who was beautiful and had not had children.... life was extended only through the absorption of the woman's vital energies (jing and qi). Some Taoists called the act of sex “The battle of stealing and strengthening.”....the male had to refrain from ejaculation during sex....

All sounds a bit woo woo (fanatical) to me :' P

Sorry for the thread detour ....

LFD
 
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Backseatdiva

New member
THIS.
My teacher of religion repeatedly tells me how important it is to gain knowledge in islam. Th phrase loosely translated to 'Strive to attain knowledge' is used repeatedly. The Quran even ecourages traveling across the globe to get that knowledge. because only when you become knowledgeable will you start to understand WHY the rules put forth in Islam are there.

Another thing he says again and again is "Naql aur Aql" "To copy exactly And To use logic" what he means by it. Basically he tells me again and again that we must follow everything the quran says. but we can NOT BLINDLY follow it. even when following it we must question ourselves WHY are we doing this, and strive to understand.

For example, i'll use the homosexual topic here. Yes, it is haram in Islam. and we must not indulge in it if we want to cal ourselves muslims, but that doesn't mean we never ask WHY? infact, because this is such a controversial issue in the world right now, Muslims need to research on the issue all the more. Is any research being done. Not that i have heard of.
 
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